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One-on-One with Michael Jordan

Marvin R. Shanken: What brought you more pleasure, playing for the North Carolina Tar Heels or the Chicago Bulls? michael jordan

Michael Jordan: That's a good question. I would say it was for the Tar Heels. No one knew me until then. That's when the notoriety and everything began with Michael Jordan. By the time I got to Chicago, I was drafted three, so everybody knew I was at least decent.

But at North Carolina, when they recruited me and asked me to attend the university, it was an opportunity to prove myself. Up to that point, everybody had heard that this kid is pretty good, but we don't know how good. He came from a small town. He wasn't preseason All-American. He wasn't in the Top 100 High School kids. He didn't attend AAU games, and he was not a ranked player in the nation.

The University of North Carolina really gave me the foundation that it took to become a basketball player. Up to then, I hadn't been spoiled by the media spotlight. I was still raw. As a result, I had an appetite to prove to everybody that I was a decent basketball player, or a good enough basketball player to be at North Carolina. That was by far the purest experience for me, and the most satisfying.

MRS: Did you ever regret missing your senior year?

JORDAN: Yeah, because I had a great time in college. It was the first time I'd been away from home. I'd met new people and made new friends. It was an exciting time. It was just fun.

MRS: What was the rush to jump out early?

JORDAN: It was Coach [Dean] Smith's call. I relied so much on his knowledge. The NBA was an area where I wasn't too knowledgeable. My parents weren't knowledgeable about it, either. And it was a great opportunity. Coach Smith felt that it would be the best opportunity for me to make it in professional basketball. Once he researched the situation to find out where I would go in the draft, then I started weighing the pros and cons.

MRS: Wasn't that pretty unselfish of him, because it meant he would lose you the next season?

JORDAN: That was totally unselfish. It's the kind of person that he was. He could have said, "You should stay for your senior year. We have a great team with some great new recruits." Kenny Smith and Brad Daugherty were coming on. Our team was going to be really good. But he felt like for me, personally, going to the NBA was the best thing, and it was the best opportunity.

MRS: How exciting was it, going back this year, and watching North Carolina win the NCAA championship again?

JORDAN: I only went to one game in almost 21 years. One game at Notre Dame that I drove down for from Chicago in my second or third season with the Bulls. Other than that, I'd never been to a Carolina basketball game. To go there and see the tradition and see that everything was still the same was great. The camaraderie. The sport. The former players. The executives. Everything was the same. It was good for me to go back, and it was good for my kids to see. That's one of the reasons I went, was for my kids.

MRS: How did the fans treat you?

JORDAN: Well, it was a little different because of Illinois playing in the finals. I live in Illinois. It was the first time [Illinois] had been to a title game in so many years. But my true heart was with Carolina. And I think the fans understood that. They weren't bitter that I was supporting Carolina or that I was wearing the Carolina blue.

MRS: I read that almost the entire starting team of North Carolina has opted to go into the NBA draft, including three juniors [Rashad McCants, Raymond Felton and Sean May] as well as freshman Marvin Williams. Is this good for the players?

JORDAN: Is that good? I can be biased from the outside looking in. I'm very supportive of the university, and I would like to see them have the opportunity to defend the championship. In that respect, I think the players should have stayed in school. Just from a selfish aspect, I wanted to cheer for my university. But I don't have the understanding of what the family situations were for these players, or what motivates them. Sometimes you have to follow your dream. Their decision also depends on what Coach [Roy] Williams advised them, and about what pick they would be. That team had accomplished a lot in winning a championship. That's the ultimate prize. I think what my mother would have told me, as long as you go back and get that degree, then I can understand the sacrifice that you make to leave school. [Editor's note: Jordan, who left college in 1984, received his degree from North Carolina in 1986.]

MRS: Are these early exits from college good or bad for the NBA?

JORDAN: That depends, too. I'm a firm believer that a player should be 20 years old or older before going to the pros. Anything less than that is potentially bad. You've got a lot of things you have to take into consideration. The lifestyle. Just the mental and physical demands of the NBA that these kids are going to be dealing with are tough. And their whole maturity level, not only for basketball but on the personal side, too, has to be taken into account. If I had been a freshman or even a sophomore, no matter how good I was, I don't know if I would have been ready for what I had to deal with in the professional ranks. But you got more and more young guys doing it. I am a firm believer that something is affected by leaving college early, or not going to college at all.

As an NBA executive, if you have to invest in a player, you want to see more of the product that you are going to invest in. Since you aren't going to see as many games [of those leaving school early] to be able to gauge the maturity of these guys' basketball talent, you're rolling the dice. You are gambling. If you don't gamble right, you're going to be set back two or three years.

Now how does it affect the colleges? Look at North Carolina. You have to rebuild that team. You've almost got to start up again with all new players.

But the impact is even spreading down into the high school ranks. Kids there are not really looking at academics. They just want to get good. If they can't get into a college, the first thing they're going to say is, Well, I'm going to go pro. That may not be the best thing for them. So this trend trickles down all the way into high school.

MRS: Are you saying that kids should not be allowed to go directly from high school into the pros without some kind of college experience?

JORDAN: That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm a firm believer in that. You can argue a lot of different situations, from social to financial. Maybe there has to be some type of arrangements, or agreement between the NCAA and the NBA, for those kids who are not financially stable. For them, there will always be pressure for going to the pros, to take care of their families.

MRS: What about players like Kevin Garnett? Kobe Bryant? LeBron James?

JORDAN: But you're talking about one player, LeBron James, who's been very successful in his first two years. Kobe [Bryant], Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Jermaine O'Neal—all those guys took at least three years before they adapted to what they had to do as professional basketball players.

MRS: They probably don't know what they missed, but you knew because you experienced college. What's important about staying in college?

JORDAN: You get the chance to mature in college. They get a chance to deal with a lot of issues in college. There's the education aspect, too. College teaches you a lot. It teaches you about being on your own, making decisions and even handling bank accounts. Eventually, you're going to have to deal with those things anyway.

MRS: You mentioned Dean Smith in a very positive way. I've wanted to ask what influence Dean Smith had on you as a young player.

JORDAN: He taught me a lot about the game. Not just about the athleticism required to play it. I'm a firm believer that when you come out of high school, you are strictly athletic. You've got a lot of athletic talents. Very few players are taught the game the right way in high school. When you go into these college programs, which was the best thing that happened to me, they are going to teach you all aspects of the game of basketball so you can apply that to your athletic skills and develop them. Once you leave college, you are a complete basketball player. Athletically, you are complete. And you know how to utilize that athleticism, and you know how to play the game within the team concept. You got a lot of these kids coming out of high school who never really had the right coaching. They think they can get by with just athleticism. It's not that way. There is very little teaching in the pros. You don't have time to teach. You've got 82 games in a season.

MRS: Where did you learn your work ethic?

JORDAN: My parents.

MRS: People say that nobody practiced harder, and you worked as hard in practice as you did in a game. There were no two different levels. Is that true?

JORDAN: I was taught to do it that way by my parents, and by the way they approached their daily activities. It wasn't half-assed. So I practiced like I played. So when I played, playing was fun. Practice is work. You're working on the idiosyncrasies of what your game needs, so when the game comes, you showcase it and you utilize it. You build your game on it. Practice wasn't just a place to take time off. You work on things in practice. On shooting, on going left or on using your left hand—those types of things that help you get better.

MRS: You were drafted number three. Did you have any idea before the draft where you were going to go? Were you surprised? Were you disappointed?

JORDAN: At the time I committed to go pro, because of Coach Smith's research, I was projected to go to Philly because Philly was in the third spot. Back in those days, the draft was based on wins and losses. So at the time, Philly was in the third slot. Billy Cunningham was the coach, and he was a Carolina guy. He said based on where we are right now in the third slot, Michael won't go less than three because we'll take him at three. Coach Smith knew that plan. But Chicago started losing games. In those days, if you lost games, you could move up in the draft. So once Chicago moved into third place, Philly moved to fifth because Dallas was coming in as an expansion team and they had the fourth pick. I could have easily gone back to the fifth pick. But then we got assurance from Houston that if they lost the coin flip to Portland, they'd take me—it was a coin flip between the top two teams to determine the first pick. But if Houston won the coin flip, they said they were going to take Hakeem Olajuwon. And that's exactly what happened. Hakeem Olajuwon went to Houston, and Portland went to its fallback pick, which was Sam Bowie. If Portland had won the coin flip, they would have taken Hakeem, and I would have ended up in Houston. But the coin flip came up Houston, and that put me back to third with Chicago.

MRS: Did you have a preference for which city you wanted to play in?

JORDAN: Not really. At that time, I just wanted to be drafted.

MRS: You were born in Brooklyn, New York. I just want to remind you. [Lots of laughter]

JORDAN: I don't think New York was in the picture. I don't think they had a pick that year. But at that time, you just want to get in the league. I didn't watch much pro basketball until I got into college, so I just wanted to play in the NBA.

MRS: What was your original deal in Chicago?

JORDAN: Financially? People are going to love this. It was a seven-year deal. I averaged about $850,000 a year. The first year's compensation was $650,000. There was no signing bonus. We tried to get an attendance clause. They were averaging 6,000 people a game. So we thought, OK, we're going to ask for an attendance clause. At the time, Jonathan Kovler was the owner. My agent, David Falk, went in and asked for that. Kovler said, We're not going to give him an attendance clause because if we draft him at the three spot, he'd better put people in the seats. So they never gave us an attendance clause.

MRS: So for the first seven years, you didn't get a raise?

JORDAN: Nope, that was my deal.

MRS: Were you unhappy about that?

JORDAN: No, I wasn't unhappy. Money didn't drive me at that time, so I wasn't worried about it. Once I signed my contract, I felt like, Let's go out and earn the money. And, I was the highest-paid rookie at the time.

MRS: Do you have a happiest memory or a peak moment when you were playing with the Chicago Bulls?

JORDAN: My happiest moment? There were so many. Do you want me to start early in my career? Making the playoffs the first time was the biggest thing for me because that franchise hadn't experienced the playoffs in a long, long time. The fans' attitude was "wait until next year, wait till next year."

In the third game of my career, we were playing Milwaukee and we were down 16 points going into the fourth quarter. People started to leave. That was their whole attitude. The game was over. I'd never experienced people leaving a game like that. It was something new. Everybody at North Carolina stayed until the end of the game, out of respect to the team.

Most of my teammates in Chicago had adapted to the fans leaving and just figured, The game must be over. I'm saying, No, it's not over until there are triple zeros on the scoreboard. I got a burst of energy and started to lead the charge. I got the opportunity to prove it's never really over. We came from 16 points down to win the game. That's when the city of Chicago started to say, OK, something's starting to happen, something is changing. There's no give-up in this kid, no matter what. He's going to keep fighting and fighting and fighting until we win or lose. That's how my first season went. That was the biggest plus for me when we made the playoffs that year.

MRS: When you were playing for the Bulls, did you, as a player or as a team, ever have any real rivalries, or was it all hype?

JORDAN: No, we had some rivalries. Early on, it was Milwaukee. We couldn't beat Milwaukee. They were just 45 minutes to an hour away. They were a strong team and they constantly kept beating us. Even when we got in the playoffs, they kept beating us. Then we got to a point where we started beating them. Then the rivalry went from Milwaukee to Detroit. And that was brutal. Isiah [Thomas] was from Chicago, and he wanted to come back and show he still dominated Chicago. I was the new guy in Chicago, and people were supporting the team. It became a dogfight between us. There was some real hatred there. On the floor, it was that whole physicality of the game, and that's what was happening on the basketball court. Anybody going into the paint was going to get knocked down. If you got stitches, you got stitches. Those are the types of games we had. But once we overcame them, then we knew we could do anything. There was no one else beating us, or having that kind of rivalry with us.

MRS: Your biggest rival was Detroit. Where did the Knicks fit in?

JORDAN: The Knicks came later.

MRS: Because as New Yorkers, we hated Michael Jordan. You single-handedly took us down more times than I want to remember. Every time in the playoffs when we thought we could reach the top, you nailed us.

JORDAN: Once we started winning and got past Detroit, the Knicks became our biggest rivals. They were trying to get where we were. We were trying to maintain what we were. Every battle was magnified. Patrick [Ewing] was a good friend. Charles Oakley used to be in Chicago. John Starks, Charles Smith, Anthony Mason—all these guys. When Detroit was winning, everybody had adopted the physical type of game. New York became that way, too. You go in the middle, you're going to get hit. Patrick was a fierce intimidator.

MRS: What was this rumor about Jordan coming to New York? We always heard that Michael Jordan was coming to the Knicks. We hated you, but on the other hand, we wanted you.

JORDAN: It was truly a rumor. We had one occasion when there was a dialogue. It must have been in 1996 or 1997 because of my contract situation in Chicago. But nothing ever really materialized.

MRS: But you told me recently that had a phone call come at the right time, you would have been a New York Knick.

JORDAN: If Chicago had not made a significant offer, New York was next. We actually had a dialogue with New York. If a phone call didn't come in 30 minutes from Chicago, we had already given assurances that we would have gone to the Knicks for less money.

MRS: How would you fix today's New York Knicks? [Laughter]

JORDAN: I knew that was coming. I don't want to second-guess Isiah. I'm not taking over for Isiah Thomas as general manager.

MRS: No, I'm not suggesting that. What would you do?

JORDAN: They have a tough team. They have a lot of injuries and a lot of big contracts. First of all, you have to find some commodities that you feel will benefit the New York Knicks, but when you do that, you can't just think one way. You have to find some team that feels that the players on the Knicks will be a better fit for the other team. Until you find the right situations for those players, you have to wait until their existing contracts expire or buy them out of their contracts. For the Knicks, it isn't a financial issue; they are still taking on a lot of contracts.

MRS: But didn't they get rid of a lot of contracts, too?

JORDAN: But they've taken on a lot, too. They are not going to be under the cap any time soon.

MRS: Which will be an easier problem to fix, the Knicks or the Lakers?

JORDAN: The Knicks don't have any cap space to create a different team. When you look at the Lakers, they may have one or maybe two sustaining long contracts. The Knicks have four.

MRS: So you're saying the Lakers would be easier to fix?

JORDAN: Sure. They'd be easier to fix.

MRS: How would you fix the Lakers today?

JORDAN: I would have never gotten rid of Shaq [O'Neal]. It's as simple as that. You've got three championships with a big man, and big men are hard to find. Not only that, you have the most dominant big man in the game today. You don't just send him away because you got some problems.

MRS: Does Kobe read about what's going on in Miami?

JORDAN: I'm pretty sure he does. But you can't blame one guy. It's a combination of both of them. If you've got success in your house, you find a way to manage so that everybody prospers and everybody is viewed as champions. Personalities got involved after they'd had some success. It becomes about individuals—individual goals that they wanted to achieve. Be it Kobe leading the league in scoring and carrying the team by himself, or Shaq proving he can win without Kobe. What's the purpose of changing if you've got the right mixture that's working? Give me a seven-footer and I'd probably still be playing right now.

MRS: The media have made a big thing about drugs this year. Is this something new or something that was around in the '80s and the '90s? Is it worse today? Is it the same? Is it a serious problem?  

JORDAN: Drugs have been in the game for a long time. They were there when I was in college, and even in high school. It's in life. It's in business. It's everywhere. It starts with the kids of tomorrow, and how those kids are brought up and what their values are. And how the parents teach those kids those values. If you don't take the time to teach those values, they will make the same mistakes. Is it still prevalent in sports? Yes.

MRS: Is it worse today than it was 20, 30 years ago?

JORDAN: I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say it's worse. There is some drug awareness out there. I must admit, it's still prevalent. But it's not worse. They've tried in the NBA to implement some provisions to monitor drug use, to eliminate it and totally get rid of it. To some degree, it is working.

MRS: It seems like for the first time in football, baseball and basketball, both on the union's side and in management, they are understanding what drugs are and that they have to do everything in their power to stop their use. Was that the case in the past?

JORDAN: No. Drug use was hidden in a lot of sports a long time ago. Now it's out in the open, be it steroids in baseball or steroids in football. Steroids have never been prevalent in professional basketball. But you got a lot of marijuana smoking and drug use like cocaine. All that stuff has been in the NBA. We've been able to curtail it and try to eliminate it, but it's very tough to eliminate. I think marijuana is still strong in the NBA. I'd like to see that paid more attention to. I think [NBA Commissioner] David Stern has done a great job to eliminate all those issues, but no one is going to be able to eliminate it completely.

MRS: Do you miss the excitement of basketball?

JORDAN: Yes. I have to stay away from it because of it. I wouldn't say it's an addiction, but it's a passion. When you have a passion, you want to do it as much as possible. Addiction means you can't help yourself. I have a strong passion for the game of basketball.

MRS: Michael, I'm now giving you the opportunity to create the Dream Team of Michael Jordan, of all players of basketball. You're on the team, and you can name four other guys at different positions. That doesn't mean there aren't 20 other great guys for those positions, but you can explain your picks.

JORDAN: That's a very good question. It's going to be somewhat biased because I didn't play back in the days of Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, some of the great stars prior to me. And it's very tough because I'm friends with a lot of players today.

But if I had to pick a center, I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him.

Power forward: There's James Worthy, whom I love, and he is a North Carolina guy. Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, whom I adore and is a good friend, and Charles Oakley. But in terms again of versatility, it has to be Larry Bird. The things he could provide to you all around: his demeanor, his work ethic and his versatility once again.

The idea here is I would build a versatile, multitalented team able to do so many different things. When the defense comes at you, they have to guard a lot of different areas, and that makes Larry Bird the choice for me.

Small forward: That is the toughest part because I played with one of the best small forwards, Scottie Pippen. He is as versatile as it comes. He handles the ball. He's a good defensive rebounder. I would be hard-pressed to pick someone else at the small forward position, even though I know Dr. J [Julius Erving] is sitting right there, too, especially in terms of excitement. And there's Dominique Wilkins, too. And you'd have to think about Elgin Baylor, even though I never saw Baylor play, or played with him. But from what I know, and what he could provide, it's Scottie Pippen. I know that's being biased to some degree. But I can't help it.

Point guard: That's easy. Magic Johnson. Because of his height, you'd have a tough time defending him. It's a beautiful thing to see a 6-foot 9-inch guy rebound the ball and start the break.

It would be the all-time tallest team, putting me at the two guard. And coming off the bench would be Jerry West to replace me. I love Jerry West.

MRS: Who in your mind is the best shooter you've ever seen?

JORDAN: Best shooter. Oh, boy. That's a great question. Pure shooter?

MRS: Or clutch shooter. I have another one here, best clutch player. You can combine the two if you want.

JORDAN: [Laughs]

MRS: Did you ever watch the Big O [Oscar Robertson] play?

JORDAN: Yeah, I watched him play. He was an all-around player, but I wouldn't say he was one of the best shooters. But he was one of the best all-around players, in the same category as Magic Johnson, who could rebound, assist and score. Pure shooter, I would say Brian Winters, who played for the Milwaukee Bucks. He had the most beautiful stroke of all the people whom I can think of. You could go, too, with John Paxson, who was next to me in the backcourt in Chicago. Clutch. He doesn't have the best form. But Reggie Miller. Or maybe Jerry West; it's hard picking one.

MRS: Best rebounder?

JORDAN: Moses [Malone]. No doubt it was Moses.

MRS: Most unselfish, a real team guy who put himself second, third, last, whatever, just cared about winning?

JORDAN: You could think of a lot of players like that in the pros. But to pick one, who would have the biggest impact on a game where you had a chance to win, that would be Magic Johnson.

MRS: Best coach?

JORDAN: I played for very few coaches.

MRS: The Dream Team has to have a coach.

JORDAN: I can't pick Coach Smith. I would take him because of my own preference. But Phil

 Jackson is by far the best professional coach, and that's a close call with Larry Brown and Pat Riley.

MRS: Where do you think Phil Jackson is going to go? You think he'll stay with the Lakers?

JORDAN: He loves L.A, and he has a great connection with L.A. I think he would consider that.

MRS: But he played for the Knicks.

JORDAN: I think it's between the Knicks and the Lakers.

MRS: The Harris Poll named you the most popular athlete in America for the past 13 years.

JORDAN: Why 13?

MRS: I don't know. [Laughter] Because they've been doing it for 13 years. Explain to me why you are the most popular athlete in all sports. That's an extraordinary achievement.

JORDAN: You ask me, and I wouldn't know. My personality is my personality. I'm very real when people see me. The way that I'm protected, I am as close to normal as anyone could be. In terms of my accolades and the way I played the game, those things had something to do with it, along with the marketability of Michael Jordan. And I don't quit. I'm a very competitive person. That could be taken in a lot of different ways. Some people take it in a negative way, and some people take it in a positive way.

MRS: You don't quit. You work hard. You don't speak out like a child. There have been players who have gone public with a lot of complaining that ends up hurting them, but you've been fairly pure and quiet.

JORDAN: I think things out well. When I speak, I speak with conviction. If I feel like it's something that best suits me and my person, I deal with it. I say it. I have no problem speaking out publicly about issues. But for personal things, and for things about personal selfishness, or wanting more money, I don't do that. Once I give my word, that's it. I don't go back to renegotiate. I don't renegotiate my contracts.

MRS: How did you get into endorsements? There have been other celebrities, but you took endorsements and ran with it in an unconventional way on a huge stage. How did this happen?

JORDAN: When I came into the pros, I never knew anything about the business aspect outside of basketball. All I focused on was basketball. The beauty was what my agents, David Falk and Donald Dell, did back in the Bulls days. They took what I did on the basketball court and attached a marketing value to it, and connected me to companies that had the same values that I had from the basketball standpoint. Coca-Cola, Gatorade, Hanes, Sara Lee. Those type of things. They built a connection from a puzzle that they pieced together because of what I portrayed on the basketball court.

I didn't go into the NBA thinking, "OK, now I'm going to capitalize on all these marketing dollars." It just happened. If you asked my agents how they created this mixture, they couldn't tell you. It was just one of those things. We entered the league in an era when the marketing of athletes became prevalent. It became one of the biggest things. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson should have been there first. Their reputations should have given them opportunity. But they didn't foresee it and they didn't capitalize on it. Initially, I think it became a sticking point in our relationships, because I was getting things that from a success standpoint they were entitled to or should have at least had the opportunity to obtain. But the timing was perfect for me.

MRS: It's been 20 years since Nike launched the first Air Jordan shoe, and today, it's turned into Brand Jordan, a significant business for Nike. How did the relationship happen, and what role do you play today?

JORDAN: I never wore a Nike shoe until I signed with Nike. I wore Converse in college, and I was a big Adidas fan. Then Nike came to me about creating my own shoe. They wanted to put my name on my shoe, and [let me] have input into the design of the shoe. I'd never heard of that before. It was a great pitch. It gave me an opportunity to learn more about the shoe industry, and they gave me an opportunity to create. I sat down with the designers and I talked to them about my personality and things that I like and things I feel people may like. We put all those thoughts into a brand, into the Jordan brand and into the shoe.

Things just started to progress. The public adapted to it and accepted it. We continued to create and lead, and the public kept following and following. It has continued for 20 years. We pride ourselves on putting certain values in the products. Determination.

Competitiveness. Design. Creativity. Style. Those are all the things that make up my personality. And they have been turned into a product that sells. The public has received that message consistently each and every time. That has aided the success of the brand.

Once the brand had evolved into something of significance, we decided to see if we could create its own foundation, separate from Nike. We wanted to give it an appearance of two entities, with Nike as the parent company and Brand Jordan as a subsidiary. I was given the opportunity to get involved at a hands-on level, touching, creating, approving everything that has the Jumpman on it. We took Nike off the brand, and put the Jumpman on the brand to see if the public would receive us properly. And they have. With that move, we have been able to expand, not just in basketball, but in baseball, football, boxing and outside of sports, too, like a Ralph Lauren or Tommy Hilfiger or those type of brands.

Even though Nike was not that edgy and not that stylish, but more traditional, they gave me an opportunity to expand on the more creative stuff. They controlled 80 percent of the basketball industry, but they knew, just because of consumer preferences, it would be tough to get more than 80 percent. So they created this other brand to capitalize, and it proved to be the correct way to do it.

MRS: Aren't you a worldwide brand today?

JORDAN: All over the world. And today, Brand Jordan is a $485 million business.

MRS: Do you have any official responsibilities? Are you a corporate officer?

JORDAN: No, I maintain my independent endorser status. But I approve all the decisions for Brand Jordan.

MRS: Do you get a salary and royalties, so as the brand grows, your royalties grow? If you want a junior partner, I'm available.

JORDAN: I haven't seen you in shorts yet.

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